Human Substitute / Discussion

This is the discussion related to the wiki page Human Substitute.

Crayon man 20 Apr 2023 18:06

Since I seem to be the only one around here, I might as well give some feedback. Concept is okey and the Item is useful. Execution still needs some baking. Some sentences are weird. I suggest asking a native speaker for help.

Example:
Instead of “Human substitute units have never tried before to run away or betray their commanding” try something like “Units created by the human substitute display absolute loyalty and have yet to disobey an order or flee a battle.”

I think that would be better.

Have a nice day.

Meta Wonderrat 20 Apr 2023 19:34

The thing is, I will not upvote it, since it has my name on the front page under it, making that a self-upvote, for anyone that would not look to closely.
Since the author upvoted the page, I decided that that upvote could stay.

I was hoping that some spelling fixes might still be implemented. Since I helped with the item my opinions on it are in the Help:Drafting thread.

Most of the time when the wiki gets quiet you are not alone. I do still have my eyes on the operation.

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Fighting Monsters and Language since 2016.

Eugene R 23 Apr 2023 12:39

Thank you for your feedback on my item.
I understand that this article is far from good (in terms of grammar and execution both) , cuz it's my first ever item. So I will work on it, check it again. I will change something, add more details.
Same as Meta Wonderrat I check this site every morning and evening.
Have a nice day too.

I did a few changes...

Eugene R 01 May 2023 21:03

So I did a few changes to Human Substitute:
1) added "Handling precautions" and "Location and Acquisition report"
2) Changed "Plate carrier" to "Tactical vest" since it did no sense.
3) I did change a few moments, like this sentence about loyalty.
But I will work on my grammar a bit later. There is one British guy who I meet quite often, so I'm gonna ask him to help me.
So…
Hope you will like it.

Last edited on 01 May 2023 21:04 by Eugene R Show more

Re: I did a few changes...

Meta Wonderrat 04 May 2023 16:47

It is good to see that you can edit the main page now.

I am still somewhat confused by being "loyal to chaos". Even if you just use the "Haos Doctrine" to define what the Insurgency is, you have disobedience practically build into the organization.

Can we just prerecord the activation phrase? It would eliminate the need to actually have more than the creator present.

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Fighting Monsters and Language since 2016.

Reply to Meta Wonderrat

Eugene R 06 May 2023 16:25

OK, I will try to explain it to you.
Chaos Insurgency got normal human soldiers right? And these CI soldiers are devoted/loyal to the "Haos Doctrine" and the idea of this organization. So "Human Substitute" units are all the same, except 2 things:
- They are not humans, they are an abnormal item, used to replace humans.
- They become loyal/devoted not after propaganda, brainwash or else (like normal people). They become loyal/devoted right after activation phrase (it is an abnormal property if this item which I may uncover later if you want to)
Now about prerecording suggestion.
We can prerecord the activation phrase. But we still gonna need someone to prerecord orders or special phrase that will designate the commander among Human Substitute. We can actually use our Chaos Insurgency AI that I heard about.

Re: Reply to Meta Wonderrat

Meta Wonderrat 06 May 2023 23:03

There are a few pretty dangerous lines in the Haos Doctrine, if they are taken as absolute:

These people sent humanity to senseless wars with the blood of men on everyone's hands.

They utilize logic against logic, keeping the promised knowledge from us. The new millennium has passed and we are more ignorant than ever.

Only we can change this stagnant world.

You know, if they are absolutely loyal to the document than they would almost have to rebel. I brought up a similar problem when "the Golems" were written. Our founding documents really do not explain how the insurgency became a strictly hierarchical military.

There is also this nugget from mission statement that might blow up in our face:

We must enslave humanity before they enslave us.

The Insurgency AI projects are as far as I know

Things that can be found on the main site

spelunker.ai (arbiter of deleted files)
Quaesitor (Orbital Surveillance)

The a deleted AI we had but no long have

Anderson (ship) (Sub-Marine that also simulates a civilian)

Several of my own files that were never published

Mr. Lolz (Financial backer)
BMS (and related off-shots) (general management)
Galetea (future assistant)

Also there are some SCP articles that mention the Insurgency, as well as the Containment Breach games, in which a computer anomaly is working with insurgency agents.

Which one would fit your intended story purpose?

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Fighting Monsters and Language since 2016.

Re: Reply to Meta Wonderrat

Eugene R 16 May 2023 17:38

Well, this is getting complicated.
Let's get it a bit darker. So we all understand that soldiers, infantry, special forces are all tools. Tools used to achieve something. And as I understand Chaos soldiers tend to "misbehave" and rebel on occasions.
But the "Human Substitute" is different. HS doesn't have enough time to read Haos Doctrine or understand Chaos Insurgency's purpose. They have only 10 hours to live. And for 10 hours they are doing only what they are told to do what makes them a good tool.
Let's just put it that way.
"Human Substitute units always display great respect and loyalty to commanding. They are sentient, they might suggest other options of completing objectives, but they never rebel or misbehave. They only do what they are told to do, that is it."
"Human Substitute" just does what it is told to do! Isn't it what Chaos Insurgency will call "loyalty" and "devotion"?
About AI.
Responsible person, that I mentioned in the article is a squad commander. It is the guy, who will give Human Substitute orders, tell them what to do. He can say the "activation phrase" personally, standing right in front of item units or this commander may prerecord his "speech" and orders and just turn it on when needed.

Re: Reply to Meta Wonderrat

Meta Wonderrat 17 May 2023 16:16

The problem I have is with the definition of the Chaos Insurgency they swear upon.
What you want the file to mean I already understood. The problem comes from what the Chaos Insurgency is. Your rewording actually solves the problem.

It is not that soldiers of the Insurgency tend to rebel, but any being that is devoted to the actual definition of what the Chaos Insurgency wants, would rebel. Loyalty to a command structures and loyalty to the ideas of the Chaos Insurgency are mutually exclusive. Anyone can only be loyal to one or the other.

As the file stands now, the parts of the file that started this are no longer in the file, so we can let it be if you want.

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Fighting Monsters and Language since 2016.

Re: Reply to Meta Wonderrat

Eugene R 18 May 2023 09:05

So, I guess this discussion is over for now.
Or do you have any more questions or suggestions?

Crayon man 20 May 2023 21:44

Hey there just wanted to say I think the current version is way better then the old one.

I enjoyed the file, so I bestow a +1.

However, I would still suggest reworking the addenda and tagging the page.
http://ci-wiki.wikidot.com/tag-guide

Nice to know that I’m not lurking alone. Meta is watching you!

Have a nice day.

Eugene R 21 May 2023 20:51

I am happy that you actually enjoyed my item. Thank you.
I will surely edit this file more (until June 1st) and your suggestions are noted.

And yeah, it is funny (and sad at some point) to see that only like three men are actually active.

Have a nice day too.

Meta Wonderrat 23 May 2023 16:59

Considering that Wikidot is filled with dead sites, the continued survival of the Insurgency wiki is testament that we are doing something right.

We are the survivors. The light in the dark. We are the Insurgency.

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Fighting Monsters and Language since 2016.

Baronjoe 24 May 2023 17:11

I do not think this is ready. There are a lot of errors like the infobox at the top being incorrectly formated, grammar mistakes, and awkward phrasing. I also think the formatting looks too bloated. The addendums should be in the report section for example. SCP-939 also feels pointless to mention in this. It adds nothing to the article except as a cameo. The CORE feels unnecessary and too convenient. I like the concept but I think this needs a small rewrite.

Eugene R 30 May 2023 15:56

Hello, Baronjoe!
I am already aware of the fact that I have a number of format/grammar/phrasing mistakes, I just don't know who should I contact to help me with that. I have one guy but I am not sure about him.
So as I understand "SCP-939" should not be mentioned? Do you have any other suggestions on that?
What exactly didn't you like about C.O.R.E.?