So the red has been removed and it looks jarring.
I also noticed the sandbox side navigation was edited and it looks absolutely awful. Lacks color and cluttered with too many things.
Hello. I'm responsible for the edits that you apparently are not fond of. Your opinion of these new changes means a lot to me because, like you, I feel the site should look its best to be organized and appealing to the eye. I really took the time to update the design for the benefit of the members. It disappoints me that your opinion of these changes is negative.
Send Message | Know that my bloodstained palms will only ever care for a greater plan.
I don't see much of a benefit or downside. It just visually off-putting for the change is sudden when how it was originally looked quite alright. It feels a bit of a downgrade and it seems like something no one really asked for.
I also just noticed that even the top header has been changed which I am also equally disappointed in for a variety of reasons.
Anomalous Item
Liked it better when it was just "Items". Obviously the things would be anomalous.
The original layout felt more in-character but now it feels out of character.
You're right. Immersion is very important. I also appreciate that you actually like the old design, since it had its share of disapproval at the time of its release and that you feel strongly enough to be disappointed and to comment on these changes. I believe that there is a charm to every design this site has had over the years, and their different appeals is why many users and even our translation sites use the older versions.
Your experience with the site and SCP culture is a good thing. It's a measure of pride that our members could get used to the structures I've built in my teen years, when I didn't know any better. I owe it to members like you to make the site's layout more appealing and user-friendly. We get a lot of new members, and it would be a waste if they lost interest because they didn't know what an Item was or had little idea of our in-universe jargon. First-time readers should have a clear path to finding your works, like Blood Rain Virus, easily using our side and top navigation.
Perhaps I can't fully see how bad the changes are to you right now, but I respect your feelings towards them.
Send Message | Know that my bloodstained palms will only ever care for a greater plan.
I owe it to members like you to make the site's layout more appealing and user-friendly. We get a lot of new members, and it would be a waste if they lost interest because they didn't know what an Item was or had little idea of our in-universe jargon.
Users could simply explore. Most don't know what an SCP is until they click. The change you made fixes nothing and doesn't tell anything. An out of universe introduction page is better but ultimately it is the user who will have to dive into the rabbit hole to become immersed. Also, we are the CI wiki. I think you are underestimating newcomers for they would be smart to know what to expect of Items.
First-time readers should have a clear path to finding your works, like Blood Rain Virus, easily using our side and top navigation.
They already did. There is a link to the item arsenal in the front page and is one of the firts things we see. The issue is the visual presentation is just lacking and it already told everything anyone needed to know. Also, I am highly skeptical that anyone has had any issues. Never have I seen a complaint about it or seen it to be overwhelming.
I think site changes should involve the whole community to vote. Let's have a poll or something.
I admit that I'm frustrated that these changes elicit such disapproval from you. I thank you for your patience in explaining how you feel.
It embarrasses me to give you the inconvenience, but the site will be keeping the new changes.
Send Message | Know that my bloodstained palms will only ever care for a greater plan.
My disapproval comes from how often you make changes. Don't take it the wrong way, it happens about almost once a year or two (depends how long you are inactive or whatever other factors) from you. A few others may agree with me as well. If memory serves me, the site have had several overhauls and who knows what other changes. I think Meta is familair with them. Anyway, it is simply inconvenient to readjust to changes after readjusting to one that already occurred not long ago. There should be someone to express their concern enough in this quiet place so I must take that role. I enjoy this site as much as anyone.
I don't mind change but efforts could go toward elsewhere. For example, the visual archive linked to this site has tons of unsourced images and is absolutely inactive. I don't think any member of staff has touched that place.
- I share the opinion that the splash of color was something that made the site-bars appealing.
- I also prefer the old way navigation was handled. Free exploration forced a user to think where they wanted to go, but they had clear entry points.
- To capture newer members I would advise to not change the top and sidebars, but to reconsider the "front page" and the "required reads". To specify, I am advocating for a guide to the Insurgency, similar to "Introduction to the FID", just with links to the some items to get someone new started. It could reasonably be held in-universe as "The talk you get once you rank up to Gamma operative".
- The Identity of the CI is something that exists, but is hard to nail down and it is true that the Insurgency that uses gray instead of red is not the same Insurgency. Here it depends on whether we want the Insurgency to be a place where you can have red and orange in the sidebars. The Insurgency Wiki, to me, should look a bit "evil and we know it". Gray is more something an in-universe cell would use to convince someone that they are serious business and not terrorists that have an alliance with sharks to sink ships and an internal squabble over an alien spider robot.
- If we are going for serious business and not "evil and we know it", the logo (literally) bites the design.
- There were CSS and design changes in the past. I was not fond of them ether. If you look at my sandboxes, most of them use something that is not the default CSS theme.
- Polls are great tools, but they need enough participants to be representative. If we can get something like a discord poll going (it seems there are the most active/new members), my vote is on "I want it red".
- Where does this issue even come from? I agree with Baronjoe, that there was no signs of a problem with site design and navigation. My "new Member experience" is so old, that I have no idea how the current "new Member experience" is. I would like to get my hands on some data for this, but I still refuse to enter discord. Could someone ask around for me?
- ""I don't mind change but efforts could go toward elsewhere."" Agreed. This site-team has a fascination for design and hub pages. I don't know why there is such strong wish for reorganization and redesign here, but I have observed it long enough to confirm its existence.
- ""For example, the visual archive linked to this site has tons of unsourced images and is absolutely inactive. I don't think any member of staff has touched that place."" I disagree. I was there and tried to improve the place. "Volatile Items" was my idea to do so, but a problem stopped me from expanding these efforts (also my method to get that stuff in there is inefficient and boring to do, I am still thinking about ways to optimize it).
- I would like to go through the visual archives backlog and source everything, but I currently lack the focus to do it properly.
Fighting Monsters and Language since 2016.
I'd be happy if you do. I'm usually on when most of us there are offline and we would gain more responses that way.
After considering what you said earlier, the links and design have been readjusted. Thank you for the help.
Send Message | Know that my bloodstained palms will only ever care for a greater plan.
as usual I arrive after the battle.
so, I guess the new sidebar is fine.
J'ai deux nouvelles, une mauvaise et une bonne
La mauvaise nouvelle c'est que je ne peux pas forcer les gens à m'accepter ou à m'aimer
La bonne nouvelle c'est que j'en ai rien à foutre
It is fine.
The fact that there was a conversation actually makes me proud. From the implementation of something new, to resistance, to some form of compromise (and someone coming late to the party implying interest beyond the end of the conversation).
A proper chain of events with a satisfying conclusion.
Fighting Monsters and Language since 2016.
So I asked the Discord server with a poll and so far an overwhelming majority state the navigation is never an issue for them.
Gotcha, I checked the poll earlier. No further changes to the site will be made at this time.
Send Message | Know that my bloodstained palms will only ever care for a greater plan.